Dealership Marketing

4 Myths of Automotive SEO – By J.D Rucker

Car dealers are usually a year or two behind the internet trends. Some companies are taking advantage of that fact.

Doing search engine optimization for auto dealers is difficult, as the market is extremely competitive. Selling search engine optimization to car dealers makes doing the SEO seem like childsplay.

Since the beginning of the world wide web, the automotive industry, car dealers in particular, have been a year or two behind the trends. Whether it is their reluctance to let go of the “glory days” in the 80’s and early 90’s or simply a lack of time to devote to understanding the technology, car dealers seem to be the last to know when it comes to the internet.

This creates problems for those selling SEO services. There are so many companies out there who are selling services that are not adequate to use against the highly-competitive world of automotive marketing. Here are some “smoke and mirrors” tactics that are currently being used to get dealers to sign on the dotted line for “snake-oil SEO”:

Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary

It has become a catch-phrase for website providers who create separate pages for each individual car.

The Pitch: “Search engines read web pages like we read books. They give more weight to websites with thousands of pages than they give to websites with dozens of pages.”

The Truth: In many industries, having thousands of pages available for “long tail searches” (covered later) for individual items is a good thing. People look for “round blue widgets in ireland” and having a page for that is good. People do not search for individual cars, which leads to the next myth…

Myth #2: People search for individual cars or by VIN

The Pitch: “Pick a car from one of our dealers. If you type in the VIN (vehicle identification number) you will see a ton of listings to the website. Competitors don’t list their vehicles like this.”

The Truth: In the automotive industry, people wanting a new or used car will search for “minneapolis toyota” or “used cars oklahoma city”. They do not search for “used toyota camry in minneapolis”. According to Overture, here are the searches from January:

used toyota camry minneapolis” – 28
toyota minneapolis” – 32,430

Real humans search for dealers. They do not search for individual cars. They do not search by VIN. They do not search by model year unless they are looking for reviews. The search for dealers when they are ready to buy a car.

Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO

When I first heard of this, I was appalled. Some providers use their Google Certified Reseller and their Yahoo! Ambassador badges as indications of their search engine optimization prowess. This couldn’t be seen as anything other than a lie.

These certifications are nice, as they mean that someone at the company took the time to learn what Google and Yahoo! wanted to teach about their Pay-Per-Click, sponsored results programs. They have no SEO benefits. There was a company that promoted their “inside track” to search engine optimization using these badges in a press release.

Yahoo! certification costs $50. Google requires a certain spend on Adwords. They both have eBooks and tests that are required. They have NOTHING to do with search engine optimization for natural listings. Sadly, most dealers do not research what the programs are really about.

Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized

The Pitch: “Our templates are completely HTML. They don’t look as good, but the search engines prefer no flash.”

The Truth: There are ways to allow the search engines to read flash. Even more importantly, most automotive websites that are built with flash technology are built with enough HTML content to give the search engines all that they need.

* * *

There are so many more tactics used on car dealers, but this is a good start. In today’s ultra-competitive automotive marketplace, it is so important for dealers to look at examples and to check more websites than the few that the SEO companies provide.

A company with 5,000 websites is bound to have a few that were optimized. It’s in checking some of the other 4,995 that car dealers can keep from falling for the smoke and mirrors.

Guest Posting by J.D. Rucker
J.D. is an automotive search engine optimization specialist
Original Post on PromotionWorld

B
Fantastic, informative & Dead-On post!
J
  • J
    Jeff kershner
  • August 29, 2007
J.D. my only concern is <b>Myth #4 - "Flash Websites cannot be optimized"</b>. Flash can be optimized but most of the techniques <i>could be</i> considered "Blackhat" by many Search Engines.

In my experience, a properly coded HTML website will consistently out rank a Flash designed website competing for the same keywords.

Here are a few quotes from the Google WebMaster Central Blog post
<a href="http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/07/best-uses-of-flash.html" rel="nofollow">
Best uses of Flash</a>

"Flash is inherently a visual medium, and Googlebot doesn't have eyes. Googlebot can typically read Flash files and extract the text and links in them, but the structure and context are missing"

"So what's an honest web designer to do? The only hard and fast rule is to show Googlebot the exact same thing as your users."

Flash no doubt gives your consumers a great visual experience and it's great for WOWING the old school GM but at the end of the day I think a mixture of flash elements for the wow factor and good' ol properly coded HTML with the right tags and content is the way to go.

Thanks for your posting J.D!

J
  • J
  • August 29, 2007
SEO for auto dealers is a big problem as I've also found out recently. There seem to be a lot of companies out there who are trying to take advantage of the fact that most dealers don't know much about proper SEO tactics, and I've had several clients who have wasted a lot of money on these companies. At the request of one of my dealers I actually spoke with a PPC management company a few weeks ago and was appalled by the lack of knowledge and how they tried to snowball me into signing up with them. I wrote a blog post about it and <a href="http://onlineautodealer.blogspot.com/2007/07/search-engine-marketing-companies-for.html" rel="nofollow">details of that experience can be seen here.</a>

My advice to dealers considering use of an SEO company is in line with what JD writes. Check references, but pay more attention to the websites that are not given as references. Any company is going to have well optimized sites, but are they consistent with all of their sites, or only for their references? Knowledge is power, and places like Dealer Refresh are a great resource to gain insight into topics that you may not fully understand.

I also have to agree with Jeff in that "a properly coded HTML website will consistently out rank a Flash designed website competing for the same keywords." Sure, Flash is visually appealing, but when you go overboard it begins to hurt the search engine rankings. Personally I stay away from it as much as possible. A little Flash here and there is OK but we've had much better results (from both SE crawlers and car shoppers) on simple designs. It makes for a tough call from the dealer point of view because Flash does make a site look a lot better, but the SE's have a way to go before they get their "eyes".
J
Here's a twist on this theme.

It's a battle out there...
The SEO firm you hire is fighting against your competitor's SEO firm. Do you have an exclusive?

You hire the SEO firm to place unique information in your site to elevate/improve your search results. Should your SEO firm offer this same marketing package to your near-by competitor, then you've dilluted your ROI.

I am building a SEO measurement tool.

Question1:
Would a SEO Marketing Measurement Tool be a help to a Dealer?
I see a need to use the tool to pay your SEO on click thrus (woa... wailing and knashing of teeth heard from within the SEO firms)

Question2:
Would a SEO want to be paid on performance? (more wailing and gringing of teeth)

IMO:
I know it takes months of SEO work to produce results. A SEO should become an exclusive marketing partner with the dealer. It is my job (as a SEO) to CRUSH my fellow SEOs in what ever territory I am contracted in. Because of this, I want to be REWARDED for performance.

To my knowledge, no 3rd party measurement tool exists. I prefer a SEO business model that is more transparent and I'd like to empower the performance pay model.

Joe


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    Jeff kershner
  • August 29, 2007
Joe, this is why I use the company that I use for SEO. They give me some exclusivity plus I work with them 1 on 1 and so far it has paid off!! Google "Mercedes Dealer" - we usually are on the top 3. Add Maryland into the mix and we dominate the #1-5 positions (give or take) with our main site and a few other micro sites and pages.

I also feel as if that once you have your website performing well in the SERPS, it makes sense to start adding pages and content to target some long tail keywords. Absolutely most consumers are searching Maryland Honda Dealer but if you rank in the #1 position for that why not go after "Used Honda Civic in Maryland" - a long tail targeted keyword phrase like this can yield a much higher converting customer.
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    Lau Pan
  • August 29, 2007


Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO

There is no industry standards established. This does not mean there will not be standards in the future; developing an industry wide acceptable certification would be difficult but not impossible and it will come.

I’d like to see some independent organization rate the training programs and help integrate an experience component to the certification. As the ecommerce industry grows there will be a need for formalizing standards to manage the huge volume, deleting useless information and filtering the good from evil as they say

There will be more and more SEM training and certification courses popping up as the need for search engine marketing experts grow. The good ones will rise to the top as people who took the courses get hired by leading search marketing firms and the others will struggle. Experience will always trump a certification so people should make sure they develop a portfolio of their work.

There is a good forum on this: http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/member.php?u=76

The guy is Aaron Wall http://www.seobook.com

There will always be a wild web however it will probably not be the one we use today as this will become “more sophisticated as they say” which means more regulated and taxed!!!


Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized

Websites that focus on flash technology but really have no substance in terms of content or message distracts from the message the dealer wises to send out are an insult to the client and a waste of time and money.

This is also true for websites that focus on flashy technology that doesn't work properly or causes the site to be slow-functioning.

Anything that diminishes from your visitor's ability to have a wonderful, effortless experience in using your site

When you look at a site that Jeff created, looking out of the living room window at the image of the vehicle parked in the driveway. There was no flash or “Pimp” here; just the message clear, concise and too the point.

Today with video no longer on the horizon but here amongst us why bother with flash? It is old school already.

Show your prospective customers what you can do for them, and not overwhelm them with too much garbage and information. You want them to have a reason to contact you to learn more and want to visit you free of the worry they are going to be attacked when they walk in the store by a “hungry lion” out for the immediate kill, pounded into submission and bullied in to a vehicle they did not really want at a price they did not have in their budget.




J
Brandon-
Thank you for the kind words!

* * *

Jeff-
You're absolutely right. I believe in some flash mixed with true SEO content, namely good HTML content. The "ways to allow search engines to read flash" are bad, which is why I didn't recommend them. I should have been more clear -- thank you saying it for me!

* * *

Jake-
Same as with my comment to Jeff, I agree with you. The balance between some flash for better conversions and some HTML for better rankings is a tough formula to master.

* * *

Joe-
Very interesting point. I have been working on a "pay for performance" model for SEO. This is not the place to pitch it -- self promotion is not what dealerrefresh is about -- but I agree there should be some measurements and accountability in the industry.

* * *

Jeff again-
Yep. THAT's the right plan that dealers should employ. We are seeing the beginning of the trend right here. More dealers are becoming aware of SEO. Soon, they will become more knowledgeable or hire those who are. I can't wait!

* * *

Lau-
Excellent points! Now I feel really silly for not being more clear with my opinions of flash. My condemnation was really directed towards the "majors" in the industry who use completely HTLM sites that do not compel the visitors to submit leads. These templated, boring, poorly designed sites get visitors, but cannot turn the visitors into leads.

I do believe in some flash for better conversion, but not those that become a distraction and DEFINITELY not 100% flash sites. As I said, the recipe for the right mixture is the key to get the traffic and convert them to leads.
A
<strong>Useful SEOBlogs</strong>

Given the recent buzz on SEO, I thought itd be helpful to start compiling a list of good SEO blogs. Email me if you think of any others to add.

SEOMoz - well written informative
SEOBook - ibid
Matt Cutts - Googles point guy on sear...
T
<p><strong> Claimed Myths More Factual Than Comments</strong></p>
<p><strong>Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary</strong></p>
<p>If you are going for a small set of keywords this myth could very well be true, however if you would like to achieve high rankings for more than a couple of keywords the number of relevant pages that you have in the index does in fact increase overall coverage and therefore increases a websites chance of being found. With that said I would say that thousands of unique relevant indexed pages are very much a necessity. </p>
<p>On a side note: Auto dealer websites often contain indexed pages (usually inventory related pages that no longer exist) that should be removed from the index. In cases such as these website providers should ensure requests for the page return an HTTP status code of either 404 or 410, block the page using a robots.txt file or block the page using a meta noindex tag. </p>
<p><strong>Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO. </strong></p>
<p>This could very well be true but certification does provide validity to the company’s claim that they know what they’re doing. If anything it without a doubt proves that they have some product knowledge and at least took the time to get certified. If given the choice of between a “Board Certified” physician and a midwife to deliver a baby, who would you choose? </p>
<p><strong>Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized</strong></p>
<p>There is a way to optimize flash sites however most dealer website providers do not provide or allow the access needed to do this ethically. Until I see a TK, BZ, Dealer Skins or any other dealer website provider that uses flash provide and accurate html representation of a flash based site along with a valid robots.txt file that disallows the flash pages from getting indexed this myth is not a myth at all, it is fact. </p>
<p>Here is Google's take on flash...</p>
<blockquote>
"You may want to consider creating HTML copies of these Flash pages for our crawler. If you create HTML copies, please be sure to include a robots.txt file that disallows the Flash pages in order to ensure that our crawler doesn't recognize these pages as duplicate content."<br />
<br />
<a href="http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35267" rel="nofollow">http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35267</a></blockquote>
<blockquote>
"Flash is inherently a visual medium, and Googlebot doesn't have eyes. Googlebot can typically read Flash files and extract the text and links in them, but the structure and context are missing. Moreover, textual contents are sometimes stored in Flash as graphics, and since Googlebot doesn't currently have the algorithmic eyes needed to read these graphics, these important keywords can be missed entirely. All of this means that even if your Flash content is in our index, it might be missing some text, content, or links. Worse, while Googlebot can understand some Flash files, not all Internet spiders can."<br />
<br />
<a href="http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/07/best-uses-of-flash.html" rel="nofollow">http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2007/07/best-uses-of-flash.html</a></blockquote>
<p>Lastly I feel that Dealer Refresh should add a new rule banning the use of one’s personal opinions to be fact and remove comments like this for the site all together. If the dealers are 1-2 years behind, posts like this will only add to the confusion and that’s not what DealerRefresh is all about. </p>


U
JD, great article, but I personally think MYTH #3 is actually a fact. Adwords and Yahoo certification defiantly means better SEO service. As you have to be knowledgeable about conversion to gain any benefit from SEO... plus you end up using lot of Google and Yahoo tools to help you along with SEO. SEO expert has to be intimately familiar with google keywords tool. PPC programs help one understand what keywords you would target for SEO. PPC adverts writing can help you write a better directory listing... optimizing your PPC landing page is somewhat same as optimizing for SEO... why not kill two birds with same stone... When looking for SEO service one should look for a company that has PPC certification and actively manages campaigns. As SEO and PPC overlap so much...

However it is outrageous when SEO companies label PPC position one as organic position... or label that they get some special insides into SEO from PPC certification.
B
Or you can just call people out on it and put blogs to use like they were originally designed.
J
King-
I'll reply to your post in just a bit.

BPA-
Yep. Good point.

Umer-
There are companies out there who are blatantly using the certifications in misleading ways. Some of their sales reps say that the certifications give them an insider's advantage, that their clients are rewarded in organic searches BECAUSE of the certification, not just based upon knowledge learned.

Understanding SEM is useful knowledge for SEO. The majority of the training for Google Certification is not SEO related. Here's a breakdown, according to the specs provided by Google:

1: Introduction to AdWords - 67 Minutes - discusses the basics, how to log in, policies, pricing and payment information, etc. - No SEO benefit

2: Getting Started - 56 Minutes - They discuss selecting keywords and writing targeted ad text for 16 of those minutes... good for SEO

3: Targeting - 58 Minutes - Mostly about site targeting, languages, etc. Arguably 5 minutes worth of "Keyword Matching Options" can be a little beneficial for SEO, but just barely

4: Costs and Billing - 34 Minutes - No SEO benefit

5: Tracking Ad Performance - 1h31m - some basic SEO-pertinent information, such as ROI, but 52 of those minutes are on troubleshooting, 10 minutes are on creating reports, etc. - we'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say half an hour is good for SEO (though that's definitely a stretch)

6: Optimizing Ad Performance - 37 Minutes - THERE's the WORD! Oh, wait, it's not for organic listings. According to the training, "Optimization: creating/editing keywords and ad text(or other parts of the account) to improve the performance of AdWords ads." Not quite for organic. Still, there is some useful information that can help in SEO, so we'll count 30 minutes as working towards the cause. Stuff such as "Adjusting CPCs to Maximize ROI" will not help in SEO.

7: The AdWords Toolbox - 14 Minutes - 10 minutes worth of SEO-valid content

8: Google Analytics - 15 Minutes - I do recommend Google Analytics or some other analytics for SEO purposes. Absolutely. This basic overview is a good start, so we'll count it.

9: Managing Client Accounts - 37 Minutes - No SEO benefits.

Grand Total: 1hr46min of basic SEO-valid training. Of course, you could spend an hour and 46 minutes on seochat.com, digitalpoint forums, or any number of true SEO websites and learn 10 times as much.

I'm not disagreeing with you, Uber, as much as I am pointing out that waving PPC certification around like a Google-SEO-Goldenchild flag is misleading. It's like someone taking a driver's ed course and using it as a credential to drive in NASCAR. Automotive SEO is so complex and the market is one of the most competitive. Using the certifications to prove SEO prowess is a misleading tactic. I look for results, not logos.
J
  • J
    James
  • August 30, 2007
JD,

Thanks for starting this discussion!

In your post, you boast of your SEO knowledge and consider yourself an expert on the subject. Are you Google Certified? If not, why?

If I'm choosing between two companies to do SEO for my dealerships, one is certified, one is not, why would I choose the one that is not?

Also, what results have dealers you've worked with experienced? I keep running into examples from vendors in limited markets, but have only had one vendor explain what SEO is vs. telling me 'we are the best'.
J
To The King:

Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary

The King: "If you are going for a small set of keywords this myth could very well be true, however if you would like to achieve high rankings for more than a couple of keywords the number of relevant pages that you have in the index does in fact increase overall coverage and therefore increases a websites chance of being found. With that said I would say that thousands of unique relevant indexed pages are very much a necessity."

Reply: It's just not true. Having 20-120 high quality pages is plenty in the automotive industry. Here's an example based upon data collected from seodigger.com (great resource, btw):

Chevy store A - 72 pages indexed, 385 top 20 rankings
Chevy store B - 1,420 pages indexed, 16 top 20 rankings

Heck, look at Jeff's site: 112 pages indexed, 287 top 20 rankings

If you're arguing that thousands of pages are better than having less than 5 pages, you're right (another reason I don't like 100% flash sites). We're talking automotive SEO, not Wikipedia or Amazon.com SEO. 20-120 is plenty. The rest is worthless.

* * *

The King: "On a side note: Auto dealer websites often contain indexed pages (usually inventory related pages that no longer exist) that should be removed from the index. In cases such as these website providers should ensure requests for the page return an HTTP status code of either 404 or 410, block the page using a robots.txt file or block the page using a meta noindex tag."

Reply: Agreed. There are other methods, but your's is definitely one way.

* * *

Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO.

The King: "This could very well be true but certification does provide validity to the company’s claim that they know what they’re doing. If anything it without a doubt proves that they have some product knowledge and at least took the time to get certified. If given the choice of between a “Board Certified” physician and a midwife to deliver a baby, who would you choose?"

Reply: SEM knowledge definitely has benefits. Certifications as described in the article are minor, minor, minor indicators as I expressed to Uber in my previous reply. It isn't SEO Certification the way some companies portray.

If given the choice between a "Board Certfied" dentist and a midwife who has delivered babies all of her life, who would you choose?

Side Note: I never said we weren't certified. We just don't pretend that it has anything to do with real automotive website optimization. My problem is with the misuse, not with the certification itself.

* * *

Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized

The King: "There is a way to optimize flash sites however most dealer website providers do not provide or allow the access needed to do this ethically. Until I see a TK, BZ, Dealer Skins or any other dealer website provider that uses flash provide and accurate html representation of a flash based site along with a valid robots.txt file that disallows the flash pages from getting indexed this myth is not a myth at all, it is fact. "

Reply: Again, full flash doesn't work. Having strong HTML content does. Mixing flash with HTML is ideal. The "myth" is that flash websites cannot be optimized. The truth is that they can be using real HTML content. The proof is in the pudding, my friend, and I would go head to head with any 100% html site any day.

* * *

The King: "Lastly I feel that Dealer Refresh should add a new rule banning the use of one’s personal opinions to be fact and remove comments like this for the site all together. If the dealers are 1-2 years behind, posts like this will only add to the confusion and that’s not what DealerRefresh is all about."

Reply: If you read regularly, the whole idea of this website is to post opinions and have an open arena where ideas can be hammered out to solve industry problems. Even after the article, I noted a few points in subsequent comments where I clarified my wording and agreed with other people's opinions. That's the point. There are no need for insults

Regarding rules, please read rule #3 regarding no anonymous posts.
J
re: Small Site vs. Large Site

JD,
Your opinon is based on CURRENT SERP RESULTS. Right now, any dealer that puts forth ANY paid SEO effort is seeing big ROI.

It's easy to see, killer SERPs now happen with little effort, the real SEO war looms on the horizon.

Summary:
You'll be preaching the "Long Tail Gospel" in less than 18 months.

Joe
p.s. 99.96% of the dealers don't know they're going to have to include a new entry on the expense spread sheet titled "SEO".
J
James-

Welcome to the forum!

James: "In your post, you boast of your SEO knowledge and consider yourself an expert on the subject. Are you Google Certified? If not, why?"

Reply: My SEM team and a member of my SEO team is certified. I've taken the course myself, but the certification is attached to AdWords accounts that I monitor but that I have the SEM team manage.

It's a great program. I simply disagree with companies using it as a credential for SEO when it's an SEM certification.

* * *

James: "If I'm choosing between two companies to do SEO for my dealerships, one is certified, one is not, why would I choose the one that is not?"

Reply: Assuming that their qualifications and references were the same, why not take the one who is AdWords certified. One note -- the companies I've experienced who brag about their certification are the ones that aren't placing in the organic SERPs. I can't say it enough -- check references. A fishing license doesn't make for a good fisherman, but it helps.

* * *

James: "Also, what results have dealers you've worked with experienced? I keep running into examples from vendors in limited markets, but have only had one vendor explain what SEO is vs. telling me 'we are the best'."

Reply: Dealerrefresh is all about knowledge. I cannot use it to tout my own services nor as a client search board. The article was intended for general SEO knowledge so dealers know the scams that are coming at them at an increasingly rapid rate.

Please call me if you have questions.
J
Joe-
Joe: "Your opinon is based on CURRENT SERP RESULTS. Right now, any dealer that puts forth ANY paid SEO effort is seeing big ROI. "

Reply: ANY is a big word. It's all relative. I visited your website and it seems like you are probably one of the "good guys" in this. Surely you have gone up against companies charging hundreds or thousands per month and not getting results that your own service gets for less. "ANY paid SEO" -- too emcompassing. "ANY GOOD paid SEO" -- I would agree with you.

* * *

Joe: "It's easy to see, killer SERPs now happen with little effort, the real SEO war looms on the horizon. You'll be preaching the "Long Tail Gospel" in less than 18 months."

Reply: Now you're making sense. In fact, I think 18 months is a conservative estimate. The only thing I would mention... nevermind, let's just talk about it on the phone. This website doesn't need a couple of SEOs talking tech stuff. I just want to make sure dealers, ISMs, etc., know enough to not fall for the scams.
D
Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary
Yes and no. An ideally optimized Micro Site can be indexed above sites with more pages. For example if you Google "2007 Tahoe" our client, Courtesy Chevrolet is the #2 naturally ranked site on Google out of 4.4 Million pages. Another example would be Google Keyword "Mercedes GL450" #3 Site and Google Keyword "2007 Dodge Caliber" #4 Site. These sites consist of 4-5 pages and out rank other larger sites.

Myth #2: People search for individual cars or by VIN
People do search for new cars by year and model. They want to know everything about that vehicle so Micro Sites target that audience. If you want a 2007 Tahoe, you wouldn't search for a chevy dealer, you would search for "2007 tahoe", or "2007 tahoe, vegas" or whatever town you live in. Most people type in the city or state as a way to find the best priced vehicle. If your site is one of the top few on the naturally ranked sites, chances are they will click on your site. You hope they find what they were looking for and have an easy way to contact you.

Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO
Not true. I know many excellent SEO guys that do not carry this certification. It really does not mean anything. The proof is in the pudding. If you have the time to learn how to effectively run PPC campaigns, by all means go for it yourself. But know that it is a daily task and not an easy one. It can get expensive if you do not know what you are doing. My suggestion is to seek out the professionals and make sure your keywords, messages and web sites (Micro Sites) are optimized for that keyword or phrase.

Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized
Flash sites cannot be optimized because there is nothing for the search engines to consider relevant content. There are many factors that search engines consider and content is high on the list. It is very, very difficult to gain high ranking in a competitive market with a full flash site, especially a site with poor optimization. HTML content is key.

Dealer sites are one site among many and you need to stand above your competition. Build a farm of Micro Sites, cross link them to each other and your main dealer site and watch what happens to your Google ranking and leads. YOUR leads, not third party pay them $20-$30 per lead, but in-house no cost leads. You will gain more exposure to the people searching for your vehicles, more in-house leads so you cut down that cost, and higher closing because you already know what vehicle the person is researching to buy.

I saw a post about exclusivity, and let me tell you that we offer that with our Micro Sites. This is a huge advantage to the dealer. Exclusive deal: Cannot be the same Make and Model Micro Site as a close competitor. I will not sell the same Micro Site to your competitor down the road or 10 miles away. SEO, SEM, PPC & Micro Sites are all important factors of a successful online marketing campaign.

U
JD, agreed using PPC certification to prove SEO knowledge is misleading... same as reading some forums or seo book to say you know SEO.

Certification alone does not mean you know any thing it is the experience that counts at the end. I'll work with a experienced individual over a certified individual any day.

J
Had a nice chat with JD on the phone yesterday, he said it well...

"...just because you have a drivers licence dosen't mean you qualify for to drive for NASCAR"

That about nails it.

Joe

re: PPC certification

J
Hi All-
I sent a question to Google about the certification, asking point-blank if the training and certification can benefit someone optimizing a website. Here is the part of the response that applies:

"I can assure you that the organic search results are completely separate from AdWords and the Google AdWords Professionals program.  Certification and Qualified Status will in no way affect the organic search results you see on Google.com. "

It was not the definitive answer I was looking for, but it at least touches on my question while side-stepping it at the same time.

* * *

David-
While I discourage self promotion on open threads like these, you make some points...

David: "Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary
Yes and no."

Reply: Sounds like you're agreeing, but I wasn't completely clear about the "no" part of it. As you said, "These sites consist of 4-5 pages and out rank other larger sites."

David: "People do search for new cars by year and model. They want to know everything about that vehicle so Micro Sites target that audience."

Reply: I agree that people look for cars. Some. I don't like it when companies point to their abilities to get ranked for long tail searches as the proof of their prowess. For dealer websites, you go after the general, high volume searches first, then the long tail afterwards.

Microsites are a whole other topic, but we can discuss it at another time.

David: "Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO
Not true."

Reply: ?
Are you agreeing that the myth is not true?

David: "Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized"
Again, are you agreeing with what most others have been saying?

I'm sorry, David, but it just feels as if you saw the topic, scanned some of the points, and repeated what others were saying, throwing in the occasional references to your products. Then, you finish it off with a full two paragraph pitch that is completely off topic. I'm not sure how to respond, but thanks for posting.

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Umer and Joe-
Thank you!
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    Jeff Kershner
  • August 31, 2007
J.D. -

"I'm sorry, David, but it just feels as if you saw the topic, scanned some of the points, and repeated what others were saying, throwing in the occasional references to your products. Then, you finish it off with a full two paragraph pitch that is completely off topic."

Agreed! <i>Come on David,.</i>

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J.D.

Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary.
I agree it is a Myth. I was pointing out from our experience that a 4 page site can out rank a much larger site. It is the content that is a factor. Which ties into your Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized. You can have all the relevant content and 1,000 page flash site, and the search engines wouldn't know it from a 1 page flash site. The technical part about it is that the huge flash site typically sits within 1 HTML page. So dealers with HUGE impressive flash sites typically have 1 HTML page to optimize (if allowed by the vendor). Thus making it very difficult to rank highly on Organic searches.

Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO
I agree with you in that it makes absolutely no difference to organic marketing as now pointed out by Google. It is geared towards the PPC. I would trust that someone with these Certs has enough experience with Adwords and AdSense and would know more than someone without one. I agree it is used today more for marketing purposes than it should be.

What you call "self promotion" is merely my experiences and opinions and from what I know to work and not work. I have been in the web development/SEO industry for 12 years and so I only speak and demonstrate from exprience. Sorry for any self promotion.

Thanks for the topic J.D.
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David-
I know what you mean. I wasn't trying to be rude. It's tough - so many come here looking for clients. The reason I go to this site more often than my own sometimes is because self-promotion is a no-no here. It is more objective and helps me to keep a finger on the pulse of the industry through the people who truly run it (even though our bosses don't know it sometimes).

I cross paths with many websites and want to say "we can do it better" but I always bite my tongue. It's tough, but it keeps the conversations more real.
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<strong>Longtail Keywords and Generating Leads</strong>

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The entry level SEO knowledge to sell affiliate products online is knowing to target the longtail.  Generally trying to rank for generic keywords does n...
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Summary:
You'll be preaching the "Long Tail Gospel" in less than 18 months.

Joe Pistell
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From my affiliate marketing experience dominating SERP's with longtail keywords is the "Holy Grail" that is where the targeted buyer comes from.

I much rather rank for "Buy a Used Chevy in (city name)" any day over "Buy a Chevy". The leads generated in the first example are targeted leads to my market area vs leads generated way out of my market area. I rather have 1 lead in my market for a specific inventory Item than 30 from all over the US for a generic term.

Paul

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Hi Paul,

I agree, in affiliate marketing, the long tail is everything. This is because you're targeting the people who are further down in the funnel, not just doing research. For affiliate marketing, it is so much more cost effective to do AdWords for the long tail where conversions are high.

In the automotive industry, so few people will type in "buy a used chevy in san diego". "San Diego Chevy" or "chevrolet san diego" get literally tens of thousands more searchers than the longer tail searches, and these aren't just research searches. These are buyers. Conversions are much, much lower, but like with the example above, would you rather have 0.1% of 32,000 people looking for "Toyota Minneapolis" or 10% of 28 people looking for "used camry in minneapolis"?

Nobody is saying not to do the long tail. I'm saying the long tail is something you get after you get the high volume local searches that the bulk of buyers are typing.

I have affiliate pages, just like you. My affiliate strategy is the exact opposite of my automotive strategy because the stakes are higher in automotive. In affiliate marketing, it takes 10 sales to cover my AdWords costs, which I usually hit at 20% or 30% of my budget. The rest is gravy. In automotive, whether you spend $300 a month or $1500, 1 sale should cover the costs. It isn't cost effective to go after the long tail alone. You have to go for the bulk primarily, especially with optimization. I know dealers who have seen 20% plus increase MoM and YoY once they made it above the fold on page 1 for major local search terms.

One final piece of advice. Apply what you know about affiliates, but remember, it's a numbers game. One of my old dealers wanted to be #1 for "Oklahoma City Lincoln Dealers". I got them there, and as a result, sales increased a lot. As a result for placing in that search term, we also made the front page for "Lincoln Dealers" nationally. We did get several leads from out of state. In 1 month, they sold two lincolns to New York, 1 in Arizona, 1 in Oregon, and several to the border states. Getting 1 highly targeted, local lead will not sell you more cars than 30 leads from out of state. Trust me. People aren't stupid. They know where the lead is going. If they send in a lead from out of state, they know there are obstacles. Having your team ready to handle these situations will help you sell more cars than with the single targeted lead.
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In the automotive industry, so few people will type in "buy a used chevy in san diego". "San Diego Chevy" or "chevrolet san diego" get literally tens of thousands more searchers than the longer tail searches, and these aren't just research searches. These are buyers. Conversions are much, much lower, but like with the example above, would you rather have 0.1% of 32,000 people looking for "Toyota Minneapolis" or 10% of 28 people looking for "used camry in minneapolis"?
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I guess I was over targeted in my example above your "short tail" example is still more targeted than mine. If I can rank for used "Used Camry in (city name)" I better be ranking well for "Toyota (City Name)".

Adwords ranking and SEO are completely different animals.

Adwords position is about quality score. I can take a non indexed page and have it rank well for an Adwords campaign due to quality score.

Dominating organic searches is all SEO and the desired outcome for organic searches is not to just have #1 in the SERP but #1, #2, #3, #4 and #5 that is the "Holy Grail" this will never be accomplished with a well optimized 20 page site. The only way to achieve this is with multiple sites and multiple pages.

The only way Adwords and SEO intertwine is in keyword targeting. But just because you can get a good position in an Adwords Campaign does not mean you can get a good position in natural SERPs. If you have a good natural position there is no need for Adwords.

Paul
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    Jason
  • December 19, 2007
> much rather rank for "Buy a Used Chevy in (city name)" any day over "Buy a Chevy". The leads generated in the first example are targeted leads to my market area vs leads generated way out of my market area. I rather have 1 lead in my market for a specific inventory Item than 30 from all over the US for a generic term.

===========================

Do you actually work at a dealership (ie - get paid for SALES) and use this tactic?

I'll take the 1st or second spot for just 'chevrolet' and make the owner of my dealership an extra $1million in profit a year! Well, if we were still a chevy dealer :)

Go only for the long tail search, and you will starve.
Plain and simple.

This is not typical IM. Typical adsense or affiliate strategies used by self employed internet marketers on a shoestring budget simply do not work in this market (forget the fact that 99% of those marketers are lucky to even make $100 a month). Selling only a few cars to internet shoppers a month simply is not an option. I need to generate over 100k of profit a month to justify my existance (and we're a small dealership, no more then 8 sales people total, and zero dedicated internet sales people). To do this, I need a site that converts, and lots of traffic to it.

If you only want searchers in your city, just use geo targeting - the VAST VAST majority of searchers don't even qualify their searches with city names! adwords ad impressions will verify this in heartbeat. There is no arguing the real stats.

I'd rather have 100 people a day from my market shopping for a 'dodge', then the 1 person shopping for "new white dodge caliber in BFE'. Both types of shoppers are equally likely to generate a lead or visit us. Set-up a free analytics account at google and anyone can verify this for themself.

Now, I can get easily get several hundred people a day to our site using geo-targeting and generic keywords like 'dodge', or I can take a month to get that traffic using long tail searches.

The nuances of car shopping and sales are nothing like selling digital cameras or e-books online :)

long tail search is mostly a way to buy clicks for cheap, as well as game the SE's and get higher SERPS.
Dealers don't need to do this. We don't need to try to get a trickle of traffic for pennies a click. I could pay up to $75 PER click before it becomes a losing proposition! Granted, the owner would probably shoot me if i did this :)

To anyone who actually works at a dealership and is just getting started in SEM/ppc, do yourself a favor and just use a few generic search phrases at first, and target your ads to only display for people within 20 miles of your zip. Keep tweaking your ads to get your CTR up, and you'll see results. This is the low hanging fruit, yet it could nearly double the total sales of the 'average' franchise dealer within a couple months.


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    Jason
  • December 20, 2007
J.D., you are spot on.

>Myth #1: Thousand of Indexed Pages are Necessary.

A local comeptitor had a new site built.. with only 5 indexed pages, it sat at the top of google nationwide for 'dodge dealer' for many many months. it only started to slip when googlebot started finding all of it's 'spider food' spammy SEO pages :)

> Myth #2: People search for individual cars or by VIN

I die when I here his claim. who in the WORLD would do this? I can't imagine how you could search for a VIN for a car you don't yet know of!

>Myth #3: SEM Certification Means Better SEO

I personaly feel anyone who makes this claim is outright dishonest trying to market themselves to the ignorant. I did both SEO and SEM, for my own sites as well as others, for years before getting into the car business. I have the google cert. PPC skills simply do not convert over to SEM. Yes, PPC campaigns are great for insite into what keywords to optimize for. but thats it.

>Myth #4: Flash Websites cannot be optimized

they certainly can. And who says a flash SITE needs to only be 1 page? even so, 1 page sites can still do very well in SERPs.

We are neck deep in dishonest vendors playing on the general ignorance of most dealers.

I used to spend a TON of time on SEO... I no longer think it's worth as much effort as I once did.
Why?
1) you can just buy the top spot and get tons of traffic. Not as challenging, but pretty darn easy. I really don't feel the need to bend over to pick up a dime when there are so many dollars just laying on the table.
2) By far the largest source of traffic and leads I get are are from keywords I could never compete with on the SEO side. examples: "dodge", "chrysler".

SEO is free traffic - and free is great. But it will never come close to good SEM campaigns. Not a day goes buy were I don't think or do something regarding SEO. But I no longer let it occupy so darn much of my time and brain cycles - no more staying up to 3 am :)
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    Jason
  • December 20, 2007
>PPC skills simply do not convert over to SEM

OOPS - typo :)
PPC skills simply do not convert over to "SEO"
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SEO has low/poor ROI if you are the only palyer in your organization staying up till 3 am thinking of how to sell more cars! hahaha...

I had much better luck. I had a buy in from the top to use the Net as a cheap advertising tool. We mark down aged and offer up loss leaders to motivate shoppers (ala "old school").

Results?
I had SEO wired for lots of excellent long tail SERPs and it all worked! 20% of all sales were greater than 1 hours drive. Now that's new business and that's ROI!

Summary:
What good is all the countless marketing hours if your merchandise ain't positioned right?!!?

Killer Internet Marketing can only succeed with a TEAM EFFORT.

just my $0.02...
Joe
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p.s. how you anyone leave a post without showing your URL?

How can you NOT leave your URL on a site like this one? Talk abut authority!
http://siteexplorer.search.yahoo.com/advsearch?p=http%3A%2F%2Fusedcarqueen.com&bwm=i&bwmo=d&bwmf=u


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    Jason
  • December 20, 2007
Joe,
our product mix/pricing seems to be pretty good. our used cars have a 33 day turnover - the new about double that. But thats well outside my area of responsibility.

In our state we are not allowed advertise ANY special pricing (internet only prices, employee prices, military discounts, rebates for returning chrysler customers, etc). Plus, whatever price we put on a website, the floor has to divulge and offer to every single customer who walks in. So my hands are tied in this regard - the GSM and used car manager call those shots.

I manage all the internet marketing, but I don't sell or set appointmets. Everything goes to the floor. So from that perspective, it's certainly a team effort here. Plus, my family owns the dealership, so I don't get too much flak :)

Internet sales is not a problem here - it's gone for non-existant to over 50% of our business in 12 months (new and used) :)

Are you working for an independent?
that would be a whole other story then, as used cars sales on the net are MUCH more inventory driven then new cars! Whereas I can generate tons of leads from keywords like 'dodge' or 'jeep', I doubt that an independant would enjoy the same success. You certainly have a much tougher road to travel... and hence long tail might just prove to be your bread and butter. i never thought of it from that perspetive.
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    James Kovacs
  • March 28, 2008
I agree with a large amount of what you said, but like everyone else have some comments:

Myth #1/#2 -

Most of what you said was true, but when you used the example:

used toyota camry minneapolis" - 28
"toyota minneapolis" - 32,430

as the reasoning for being relevant for the major terms, I think you missed the boat. Although I of course want to be ranked high for "toyota minneapolis", I don't know what those searchers are looking for. It could be car (insert year and model), could be truck (insert year and model), could be SUV, service, parts, bodyshop, racing info, hats, t-shirts, etc. The point is those generic searches are definitely something that I don't want to be invisible on, but I definitely don't want to miss 28 people who did targeted searches for a specific car that I may have many in stock. As searches get more specific the conversion rates go up, and fewer competitors are showing up in the listings. And if I have a website that would deep-link directly to my used camrys then that would be a bonus too.

And I hope that vendors suggesting that even VIN's can be read are not saying that is how consumers would search, but rather that the spiders are reading specific content.

Myth#4

Most vendors have created their platforms in outdated technology and flash platforms try to stuff keywords at the bottom or around the sides, but the flash itself is not read.

BUT in 2007 Adobe released Flash 9 which allows for everything to be developed in text and rendered to the end user in Flash. This allows for spiders and bots to read the text version and consumer to get a professional experience. www.saford.com is a great example.
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great stuff, it always amazes me how many dealerships overlook a focus on organic search engine optimization. In my personal opinion it's best to stay away from flash, that said I do agree with you in that having a flash site isn't instant death, there are a lot of things we can do to optimize a flash website for a dealership.
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Great post although I have to disagree with the JD's original posting.

Myth #1: The more indexed pages does help with your SEO efforts as this is part of Google's algorithms. How big of a factor it is only Google knows.

To continue on this point. I believe it is extremely important that your website indexes your inventory pages individually not only for having more content, but also having FRESH CONTENT! Google's algorithms also looks at how often a website is updated.

That said, you add these two factors up and indexing your inventory is of great value.

I do agree that it will not help much with getting direct clicks to your site, eventhough I do see clicks with inventory specific searches, I think this is a very small portion of searchers.

Myth #2: Good point, but you are forgetting that you have more then just a used Camry on your lot. You have to add all searches for vehicles in your market that you have in your inventory to really make a valid comparison.

Myth #3: Never heard that before,obviously BS, so I have to agree.

Myth #4: Although lots of improvements have and will be made to make FLASH more search engine friendly, take a look at the big ecommerce websites and see whether they use FLASH. Nope that;s right, they don't.

My advice for dealers and website developers: Take a look at what the leads in the ecommerce market are doing. I am not talking about the car industry only. Look at how a website like Target.com tries to complete a sale and what kind of technologies they use. These companies spend millions on their design with attention to detail.

Target for example makes the steps to purchasing an item very clear and highlights the next step in light yellow, so the customer knows what to do next. These companies improve, because they have very good tracking tools on abandonment rates and many more things that allow them to improve both visitors and conversion.

Regarding the big sell in the market right now to get on the Video SEO. Remember, that having your inventory on Youtube does get you exposure, but does not get you the leads you want. Really the videos need to be on your website and hosted on your website, not embedded from Youtube or a third party provider. It is the same as some website vendors using a third party tool to display inventory on their dealers websites, which in return these pages are indexed under the third party tool's website and not the dealer website.

So, in short: Increase traffic to your site by using basic SEO techniques. Best way to do this is to have incoming links with keywords as the tag text coming from related websites.
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fantastic breakdown, very valuable. I'm going through the process of interviewing SEO/site vendors and these are both true and perfect questions I've been asking. Now I'd just like to know, who are the best ones to use???
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I usually do not comment on blog posts but I found this quite interesting, so here goes. Thanks! Regards, P.
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