Autotrader.com Annual Sales Meeting 2009 – Another Side of AutoTrader?

@Kool-Aid
Ummm... hate to tell ya whatcha already know but ain't tellin': a scraping project has been underway for a few years now at ATC; the scraping comes from within.

Great setup Ia-Mc, if u have too waste ur time on boards like this tho ~ trying to prop up atc??

Send me ur resume, maybe i can do something for ya.

-Sayre

The simple answer to your question is yes. If you look at the numbers, our ROI on our $'s invested in Autotrader.com has never been better. Our account management is at its highest level in the history of our relationship and we just met with them to discuss some enhanced reporting.

So, I guess I am still drinking the kool aid. It's a lot easier to afford the kool aid when you are selling a bunch of used cars and growing market share.

David, am curious; how is ATC holding up on the promises thry made at the meeting you attended in Jan '09? Are you still a raving fan? I open this question up to the floor.....

What a conversation! If nothing else ATC brings out the passion from both sides. As a former CAT employee for almost 8 years I have heard the stories from both sides, the dealer and CAT. On a side note I'm trying to figure out the identity of Trader Hokie since I was the Desert DM for AutoExtra.com.

Back to the comments, the arguments over ATC and Cars are getting old and dated. Dealers, you need both of them no question. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. As for those that like to claim print is dead or dying, you really need to look at the whole picture. While newspapers are on the ropes targeted publications still do very well and under the current conditions can be very cost effective.

The Internet is no different than other advertising mediums in the basics which are target demo, reach, frequency and most important the message (call to action). Yes the Internet does give the benefit of more content for less money. But just as your used lot doesn't contain all one make or one model, your advertising mix should not be all one or two choices. As much I as love the Automotive Internet Business (now working on building another auto site in the Phoenix market), we love to throw stats around more than politicians love polling numbers. Are effective? Do we offer great ROI? Can we target better than other mediums? Yes to all. One caveat......ROI is subjective.

Can the Internet deliver buyers to the Internet Dept. of course. But what about the "soft" results that are always talked about. Clicks to the website? I can't tell you how many dealers I've dealt with in 3 states that tell me those are not legit. But when pressed they are spending a couple of thousand with Reach Local or some other SEM/SEO campaign and count the clicks. Why not with an automotive site? What about the walk in traffic? From the last ATC/Northwood Univ study, I believe it 54% of customers generated by online never email or call? As Sellmorecars just noted, these set up the "driveby" scenario on the sales floor to avoid the split. Been there, done that, not proud of it.

I've had more dealers tell me they always look at the results from any site I was with, take the hard leads and add 25% for the soft leads they couldn't track. They got it when it came to understanding what the internet and auto sites were about. Not lead providers, just plain advertising with better accountability to a degree.

Fight all you want. ATC is the big dog on the street. While I don't drink the "Kool-Aid", I hope the changes they are putting in place will be successful. They don't want to admit it but there is competition out there, even from the small regional and local sites like me. What dealers need to realize and it shows in the comments, they are in the newspaper syndrome with ATC and Cars to a certain level. I need to be there because my competition is there and they spend $200 million to advertise. Just as Trader Magazine was once the source for cars and has faded, the auto listing sites will do the same but will not go away. They will just be another source.

While the big guys fight it out for the listings win, us little guys will take the next step and use listings, .mobi, texting, Behavorial, video and traditional media to deliver the right message, at the right time to the shopper and buyer all from one source. To the former CAT people that will sound familiar.

There's room for all of us in the market. The current conditions will not last forever and the ones left standing will have a wide open field to compete on. Someone said 5 years behind is an enternity in the Internet. When you look at it, the auto listings and CPL models are already dated. One can only do so much to spruce up an old technology. ATC lost a great resource when it let CAT (which ATC was part of) fall. They lost the ability to go cross channel and reach every potential buyer. Someone earlier said that 78% (another one of those polling #'s) of people looking for cars use the Internet, what about the other 22% are they not worthy of seeing what is available? Are they not worth our time and attention? Are the 78% that go online really in the market at that time?

I’m all for the Internet and what it can do for the dealership. With that said I can also make the argument it should be low priced. Another subjective term. I firmly believe we on the Internet vendor side of the table tend to invent and introduce more products that offer little in value as far as functionality and ROI but sell the sizzle to get the revenue. Capitalism at it’s best and I’ve been guilty of it. But for the dealers out there, ask yourself, I spend all this money on location, location, location for the drive by traffic and eyeballs. Does it really give me the ROI? If you say yes, then why do you need to advertise? Paying more for Internet listings is the same thing, most of the traffic any of our sites generate are “drive by”. If I looked at the mix, could I reallocate some of those funds for other products that would enhance what I already have?

Good luck to ATC. Thanks for letting me ramble.

Trader Hokie you will never get feedback from these guys regarding traditional media because they don't make decisions for that. They still have "internet budgets". The key is to find a website that owners blog and have that discussion. I still can't believe some of these dealers still have a separate budget for online when it is majority of their business. I always tell owners when you have an "internet department" you set your sales staff up to lie to you about sourcing. My favorite is when we hear about phone calls and emails. If they really knew about online, they would know majority of the traffic on sites like Autotrader and Cars don't do either. They just show up. Oh well, dealers always know more though. Maybe in 5 years they will figure this out.

How about we settle this once and for all... "Mr. Dealer... Yes, the economy is currently soft...ok, yes, it's bad. But unless you're going to close your doors tomorrow, you need to sell cars. And how are you going to do that? By reaching as many IN-MARKET car shoppers possible. Now of course, you can't advertise everywhere. The money just isn't there. You have a budget and you need to make every advertising dollar count. So where can you spend your money, that reaches the most car buyers possible? ON THE INTERNET. And when it comes to the Internet, there are TWO great websites that can reach the majority of car buyers--AutoTrader.com and Cars.com. AutoTrader partners with sites like Univision, MSN, KBB, NADA. Cars.com partners with Yahoo, Freebo, ConsumerGuide, and over 150 newspaper and TV outlets. We don't need to talk unique visitors on either site, who's the biggest or the baddest. These are the TWO front-running sites, with less than 25% overlap in unique visitors. If you only advertise on one, you're missing a large portion of the other site's audience. You could spend around $2000 for the Featured Plus product on ATC, around $2000 for the OAP on Cars.com, get an ROI from both that's OUTSTANDING, reach more in-market car buyers than any other combined media spend, and STILL pay less than what you're paying for ONE WEEK in the newspaper. Let's get reps together from both sides and create an INCREDIBLE campaign to help you move some metal."

I mean really guys, STOP THE BICKERING. I've worked for both Cox Enterprises and Classified Ventures. Both are great sites, both will work for the dealers, and you should spend more time fighting the wasted ad spend on TV and in the newspaper (and even on the radio of all places). Do you know in a C-Market like Charleston SC, one page, for one day in the newspaper, is like $1900--MORE if you ad color. A radio schedule in an A/B market like Norfolk VA, to reach a decent frequency, is AT LEAST $2500-$3000 a week or more. And TV? Forget it! The Internet is THE place to shop as a consumer to really know what you can get for your money. And you BOTH have the BEST sites for them. No one else even comes close. I bet if you actually worked TOGETHER against traditional media... You could get even more than just $2000 each per month. Stop talking traffic and start talking EXPOSURE and RESULTS.

By each side putting up a wall, and taking a competitive stance against the other site, you're actually demeaning your own product and your own reputation, in front of the dealer. Jeffrey Gitomer, one of the leading sales guru's of our time, practically uses the statement "people buy from people they trust" as his mantra. If you actually SUGGEST both sides work together in the best interest of the dealer...WOW...THAT will build trust. And then he'll actually COME TO YOU for ad decisions, and will be even willing to buy more if you can show him something is going to work.

Just my 2 cents...

I'm still waiting for you to answer the question you keep dodging...Where did you come up with 3X the traffic?

I'm aware of that. That is why compete or alexa only show 5-6 million for ATC. When you add in all of the partner sites...you get 16 million.

SCRAPER: (skrey-per) Noun

A program designed to take site content without permission. It catalogs and indexes the World Wide Web without following an industry standard protocol. Seeks to disguise itself and ignore the ROBOT.TXT file for instructions. At ATC, scrapers are eliminated from site metrics when we are able to identify them. Just like Cars.com .

If you would like me to explain what spiders are and how they work...let me know.

Bottom line...ATC had 16 million unique visitors and Cars.com had 10 million. Great numbers for both sites and I hope you are on both. You keep masquerading as a dealer...if you were a dealer and you are this bitter...cancel ATC!

Koolaid,

So traffic numbers from partner websites are never counted in total site traffic? Compete and Alexa are reporting organic searches. They do not combine traffic from organic searches and searches from partner sites to get the number of total searches.

You are so confused. Here is your educational research. Read this and if you still don't get it.... incredible.

You still don't get it. Cars.com, ATC, etc., are all held to the same reporting standards as determined by the IAB. Therefore cars.com and ATC report numbers based on the same type of activity. Do some educational research on the subject and get back to me.

Koolaid,

Why is it that my AT rep is now saying that AT had 16 million uniques on the site in March 2009? Why does AT continue to allow Spiders and Bots to inflate their traffic numbers? Is this to continue to deceive the car dealers?

Give us a break. The Dealer Center of AT used to have a disclaimer about the Spiders and Bots. Now they just have the asterisk without the explanation.

The deception continues.... a lot like the traffic numbers on the dealer center that mysteriously went away when they no longer were the Yahoo Autos partner site.

Geoff,

I just want to make sure that I understood your comment correctly. You canceled AT because your CRM tool showed 20 phone calls even though your salespeople, the ones that engage your customers, credit the site with 20 sales per month? Did I misunderstand something here, or did you?
I have a few follow up questions about no loss of sales:
How long ago did you cancel? How many monthly visitors on your site while using AT, how many after? How about floor traffic? How about calls to your dealership that weren't routed through a tracking number? Has enough time passed in a 90-120 day buying cycle market to really know if AT was returning on the investment?

Point is that figuring cost per lead on phone calls only is the 1990's of web marketing. Both the big players and edmunds recently completed independent studies on consumer behavior that highlight a noticeable shift away from phone and email submission. Respectfully, if that is all you are looking at you need to hold your other advertising to the same standards. If you can't draw a straight line between the source and the sale cut away, goodbye newspaper, goodbye billboards, goodbye radio, goodbye charity events, goodbye demos, heck if you really suck at tracking your sales, goodbye website. Are you ready to sit back and really rely on your walk-in traffic?

The internet has ushered in a new era of consumer behavior. There will be less straight lines between your marketing efforts and a sale. You need to be prepared to intelligently consider the strongest influencers of your sales as part of a viable mix. I'm not writing a blank check for AT here, but I am saying that you can't patently throw out web transfers as junk reporting.

There has to be an introduction before there can be a consummation. Are you sure enough to wager all of your website sales that AT had "nothing" to do with getting those buyers to your site?

FYI...Yahoo Autos only contributes an average of 800,000 uniques. Maybe a little more but not much.

Typo...I meant were not truthful?

You still didn't answer the question where you came up with 3x increase. Is that because you truthful?

Oh, and by the way -- ATC doesn't "control" any inventory -- the dealers do.

Kool-aid,

Obviously, based on your comments you do not know how the Comscore data is generated. You are exactly the problem with AT -- you think you know everything and the dealers know nothing. Too bad.

You think the KBB trade for Yahoo was "brilliant"? I rest my case.

I forgot to mention...Most consnumers appraise their trade or research at KBB.com, Edmunds.com, or NADA.com before they go into the dealership. ATC controls the inventory for all 3 sites! Good luck!

John B...Let's see...Cars.com averaged 8 million unique visitors per month in 2007. Leap forward to 2009 and according to the latest reports by commscore. Cars.com is down over 2008. However, Cars.com is around 10 million uniques per month. Where does the 3X increase come in? ATC on the other hand, had 14 million unique visitors in Feb 2007. Feb 2009 ATC had 15.8 million unique visitors. All ATC did in Dec 2007 was trade yahoo for KBB.com. It looks brilliant now doesn't it? BTW...I won't mention any names, but ATC's head honcho was at a conference with Cars.com's head honcho a couple of months ago and you know what Cars.com's guy said? I quote "We are 5 years behind you guys"! In the internet world, 5 years is an eternity.

Jim,

I liked your comments however Cars.com is not a "distant second" in reality. Here's why...

AT likes to use traffic sites like Alexa.com and Compete.com to compare themselves to Cars.com. These sites only count "organic searches" (the consumer typed in a specific internet site on their browser). It does not take into account Site Traffic as a result of Cars.com (and AT for that matter's) site Partnerships.

Cars.com Partnered to provide dealer inventories to Yahoo in December 2007. Since then, the site traffic has more than almost tripled. The growth is not just because of Yahoo, but Yahoo grew it significantly.

Do you ever wonder why you can not see your history data on AT's Dealer Center prior to January 1, 2008? (They must not want you to be able to compare what happened after they lost Yahoo to Cars.com.) What a crock!

Mike,

Keep spewing that nonsense about "a limited number of Partnerships available in a DMA". You drank the Kool-aid.

A District Manager can (and will) approve any number of AT Partnerships in a given DMA. True, there are a set number of guidelines per make, but the District Manager does not need to follow them. Also, AT will zone out a DMA (by Zip Code) in some DMAs. This means that a dealer, although they are paying Premium, may not have all the zip codes in their own DMA. And don't get me started on the Conquest package that allows dealers in other DMAs to buy into your DMA!

The truth is that if the dealers stopped paying for the Premium space, they would still all be on the site. The ones that are still paying for Premium (foolishly) are competing against themselves when the other dealers in their make figure this out.

Save the money and you will do as well in the Featured section of AT. If you see worse results (I doubt it), AT will always take more money from you if you decide to go back to Premium listings.

Before you guys spend big money with ATC or Cars.com, make sure you are tracking the ACTUAL independent leads generated from these guys and DO NOT RELY on the reports that they send you with crap like web clicks, etc.

I saved my dealership $5000/mth because my salespeople were telling me we had sold 20 vehicles off of ATC that month, but my call tracking only registered 20 calls MTD -- off of a 5000 spend! That averaged to $250 per car lead??? Anyway, I cancelled right away, and have noticed no drop in my units sold through.

Like it or not, it's the age of the internet. And from the venom spilled here by a some crying sour grapes because the price they paid ten years ago to be on ATC was one tenth what they probably pay for ATC today. Yet the amount of unique buyers that visit ATC monthly are 10 times what they were back in the day.
ATC is the big dog on the block, with Cars.com at a distant second, yet a formidable foe. So if your angst is about the price of the top level, don't buy it. Thats why there is a middle level. After working in newspapers for years, the dealers would moan about the price of a full page ad and would buy a quarter page instead. Did they sell as many cars? Probably not, but they usually sold enough to easily pay for the ad.

So if you compare ATC to buying cheaper plastic spoons, maybe your customers can only afford cheaper spoons and its time to expand your customer base to include those that can afford the better quality spoon. If you dislike a company because of bad experiences in the past, you should be elated that an internet giant like ATC is reaching out to it's customer base and it's lost customers that have left them to try to right the ship. If your venom for ATC is so strong that you would never give them a second chance, you should at least consider Cars.com.
People were angry at the newspapers because there was always somebody else buying the full page ads that they couldn't afford, or wouldn't. Some people here have a hate for ATC because other dealers pay the price for a service that works for them and the sales generated by ATC justifies their cost.

John B
The bottom line is why is there a Premium section? Because dealers asked for it. How many times do you think a dealer has said; or asked for his cars to be on top? If you were talking radio or television; it's how can I get my spots in prime time? Newspaper; how can I get the front cover; back cover; right hand page? The answer is always the same; you pay a premium for it. That's just business! The market drives the price.

As to the fact that there is a limited number of front or back pages in newspaper; limited prime time spots in electronic media; well ATC limits the number of Premium partners in any specific make. A GM partnership won't be sold to unlimited GM dealers in a market. There are only a few partnerships available per make in each DMA.

Mike,

Your comparison to newspaper placement is exactly the problem with AT. AT is an internet site trying structure itself like a newspaper.

Dealers and Consumers are not served by the tiered structure and Pricing on the Autotrader site... only Autotrader.

AT has convinced dealers that there truly is value to being in the top spot. The problem is that ANYONE can be in the top spot. As time goes on, the value is even more degraded as more and more dealers in particular market take the bait.

In these lean times, dealers all over are starting to realize this and cutting their AT spend to the "Featured" position on the site. AT's lack of high trafficked partner sites is degrading their impact on the dealer's bottom line. The latest push on the New Car side is showing their desperation to retain income.

Your newspaper analogy is flawed. What you fail to realize, is that there is ONLY ONE front and back of a newspaper for advertising purposes. There is no such limitation on a Website.

I am not saying do not advertise on Autotrader. I am suggesting that the "Emperor" has a lot less Clothes on than he used to!

meant to say above “...in order to
pre-prepare IN ADVANCE and utilise forward planning… ”

At the end of the day, there's a paradigm shift of the strategic staircase; to reverse wrongsiding the demographic by leveraging talents and display and inspire unyielding integrity thru living the values and a reduction in workforce.
Strategic intiatives focus on the next level drill-down to granularity, cascading down new information to staff and feeding it back to our stakeholders, who must come to the party or be left out. And also in addition, to aggregate bandwidth at the close of play by actioning ROI, since we'd better not let the grass grow too long on this one unless we've captured the low-hanging fruit. By capturing and employing 360-degree thinking we are still optimistic things will feed through the sales and delivery pipeline, in order to
pre-prepare and utilise forward planning and ensure the balance sheet by sprinkling our magic throughout the enterprise. We need a holistic, cradle-to-grave approach and, as product evangelists, loop back to our clients
and touch base, and exchange idea-showers offline. From the get-go, we must... we shall... let us now... go forward together in this space.

As to the selling of positioning on ATC. All media does it. Radio and Television charge more for prime time spots. The newspaper gives the back or front page of the section to the biggest contract. Google and Yahoo charge more to be listed first. It's like Reale estate; it's all about location; location; location.

... meant to say above "This is why you really DON'T see your AT rep until cancellation time"...

As a former AT employee, it is not surprising that you did not get the service you needed after the sale at AT. It was never the focus of management.

AT's business model is flawed and is not customer(dealer)centered. I realized this early in my stint there and it sickened me. Look at the Tiered Structure of the site. (Premium, Featured, Standard.) It is all about squeezing more out of the dealers. The "new car" suite is absolutely ludicrous.

Yes, print (especially) is slowly dying (look at the reported bankruptcies in the Newspaper industry). Okay. Just because you have spent $40K a month on print in the past doesn't mean you have to spend that much forever. Your margins are shrinking and so should your entire ad spend to compensate. The internet the current solution to this problem.

In early 2007, AT took away the bonus paid on the rep's book of business. Reps at AT are paid to sell new contracts. And penalized 100% if you cancel. This is why you really see your rep until cancellation time.

AT seems to be trying to change the course of their corporate culture, but this is a big ship to turn around.

Unfortunately, at AT there are a lot of people in place in management that have always used weekly quotas and fear tactics (getting "written up") to motivate the sales people. Many people under this kind of pressure from their company do not have the strength to think about anyone but themselves. You, the Dealer customers have been on the short end of that deal for a LONG time.

Wow; as a new ATC Ad consultant; all this pent up venom really surprised me. I've been with ATC since June 08. Prior to that it was five years with the Big daily Newspaper selling auto dealers; where we raised rates 7% every year.I had at least three dealers spending close to $1 million per year with me. I could see and hear the changing advertising environment; where these dealers were all headed towards the internet. In fact; it was some of my larger dealers that suggested I should try and get a job with ATC; as they found it gave them the best bang for their buck. As a competitive vendor I thought that ATC and cars.com were ridiculously cheap; as my average account spent $40k per month with me at the newspaper.

Before that I sold the top Adults 25-54 radio station in Silicon Valley to auto dealers. That too wasn't perfect; as often my dealers would get several of their prime time spots bumped off the air for higher rate spots; even though the dealer had an annual contract.
The average spend here was $15,000 per month.

I think the pricing of ATC or any rate increases are not really the issue. The issue is that you weren't getting enough service for your investment. I can assure you that ATC is working to correct that. All the sales people now receive about 50% of their commisions based on service metrics. If you haven't done the things to make the dealer successful; you don't get paid.

I would have to say; of all the media I have worked for ATC is the most customer focused and it shows in the dealer retention. So; please forgive us for any mistakes we've made. We are working to get better.

Soon, when it's too late, you'll see what I'm talking about. I'll let all of you find out for yourselves. For years, no one at the SEC wanted to listen to Harry Markopolis when he warned them about Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme. David Metter was "encouraged" to post here.

Joe--
Lay off of David Metter. He didn't drink too much of the Kool-Aid. If you're familiar at all with the Mile One Group, you'd know they are one of the largest and most successful dealer groups on the east coast, with or without AutoTrader.com. There was a time when the a large portion of his group wasn't even on ATC in my market, so it's not like he's in deep with them. He's giving his opinion in an open forum, and I think it's in bad taste for people to attack him, JUST BECAUSE he likes ATC and you don't. If dealers could get off their high horse, embrace the Internet, and realize ATC is worth the spend, there wouldn't be an issue here. I've seen dealers spend SO much more on newspaper, radio and TV it's HORRIBLE. With no ROI. And for those who used to work for ATC and are attacking them? Well, yes, they had steep goals, sometimes almost unattainable, but you're in SALES. If you can't hack it, get out. If they put you out, you failed to do what they asked you to do. Plain and simple. ATC is not the big bad wolf. And no, I don't even work for a Trader related company anymore. I just kept the name A) because I've used it a lot before when I was working there, and B) because I'm proud of my time with the company, it helped accelerate me into the salesperson I am today.

Dealers...former employees... PLEASE, stop the name calling, the finger pointing, and the drama. Move on. AutoTrader.com--What they do DOES work.

Peace.

Oh yea, the Kool-Aid flows freely and all are required to overindulge; same as with the HEAVY drinking, high fiving and back stab... er back slapping, self congratulatory narcissism. You're about to be bamboozled again. David Metter, you're a trip!
How much did you sell your soul for?

Trader Hokie-
Yes, the same. Alpha Dominator.....
On top of the $6500 or so we pay as a partner an additional $3000/mo. That is for one Line. I'm a C/J/D store and all three for $6000/mo.

There has to be a point of diminishing returns for both AT and a dealer. I am glad I have a well performing website, well optimized and branded. Maybe I'll give them the heave ho.

One more thing… I hate to put it this way, but ATC IS a necessary evil for dealers everywhere. It’s not their fault, they just built something that works. No, really. When they say “WHAT WE DO WORKS” they have the numbers and research to back it up. Every industry has a leader, they are it. And Cars.com is right there with them, neck and neck.
Do you want to sell cars? Do you want to make sure you do it as cheaply as possible? Do you want to make sure that EVERY dollar is TARGETED, and that there are NO wasted ad dollars? In this economy, you can’t afford to waste money.
The sole purpose of sites like AutoTrader.com and Cars.com is to bring car buyers and sellers together. Period. The same is NOT true for radio, TV, newspaper, or direct mail. They are “reach-preachers.” But if a TV or radio station reached 1,000,000 people, only a small percentage of people are looking to buy a car. You just wasted A LOT of money on people NOT in the market to buy. In this economy, are you looking to reach those who are looking to buy today, or those who are looking to buy 3 months from now (which isn’t going to help keep you in business into next month)?
Yes, I know you like the branding, and seeing your face on TV Mr. Dealer, and your company name. But it’s not about you, it’s about the consumer. Trust me. Leave the car selling to you, leave the advertising to us. Image ads don’t sell cars. Product ads do. That’s advertising 101.
AutoTrader.com’s top package is probably around $5,000-$6000 for a Tier-1 partnership at this point, for like, Ford or Chevy. I know TV schedules, and radio schedules, that cost A LOT more weekly.
Monthly, the totals are shocking (and I don’t care if they give you bonus spots, if you look at something like a TapScan report, you’ll see that NO ONE is listening on the overnight or weekend day-parts). Ask your broadcast reps for an Arbitron or Nielsen report, that reflects the RETAIL SPENDING POWER of their station. You’d be surprised how many actually intend to spend money on a new or used car this year. This information IS available, no matter what they tell you. You’ll be shocked to see what your true reach is, and how it actually affects your ROI.
With regards to newspaper and other print products, yes, they are places where people DO go to look for cars, but not a lot of people. Yet I’ve seen what some of you spend on the newspaper! I’m SHOCKED! Consumers want as much information on the car (photos, COMPLETE descriptions) and the seller as they can possibly get before making a decision, and the Internet gives you more of that than any other place, with little to no effort on the part of the consumer. Just point and click, from the comfort of your own home. The newspaper does not. TV does not. Radio does not. The product value/effectiveness doesn’t justify the spend.

Bill--
What's the Dominator package? Is it that big orange ad at the top of the page? With the banner in the middle of the page, and the ad that pops up before the search results?
And if so, you say it's $3,000 a month?
This must be similar to the Alpha dealer package they were working on before... And now it's just an add on?

One more thing… I hate to put it this way, but ATC IS a necessary evil for dealers everywhere. It’s not their fault, they just built something that works. No, really. When they say “WHAT WE DO WORKS” they have the numbers and research to back it up. Every industry has a leader, they are it. And Cars.com is right there with them, neck and neck.
Do you want to sell cars? Do you want to make sure you do it as cheaply as possible? Do you want to make sure that EVERY dollar is TARGETED, and that there are NO wasted ad dollars? In this economy, you can’t afford to waste money.
The sole purpose of sites like AutoTrader.com and Cars.com is to bring car buyers and sellers together. Period. The same is NOT true for radio, TV, newspaper, or direct mail. They are “reach-preachers.” But if a TV or radio station reached 1,000,000 people, only a small percentage of people are looking to buy a car. You just wasted A LOT of money on people NOT in the market to buy. In this economy, are you looking to reach those who are looking to buy today, or those who are looking to buy 3 months from now (which isn’t going to help keep you in business into next month)?
Yes, I know you like the branding, and seeing your face on TV Mr. Dealer, and your company name. But it’s not about you, it’s about the consumer. Trust me. Leave the car selling to you, leave the advertising to us. Image ads don’t sell cars. Product ads do. That’s advertising 101.
AutoTrader.com’s top package is probably around $5,000-$6000 for a Tier-1 partnership at this point, for like, Ford or Chevy. I know TV schedules, and radio schedules, that cost A LOT more weekly.
Monthly, the totals are shocking (and I don’t care if they give you bonus spots, if you look at something like a TapScan report, you’ll see that NO ONE is listening on the overnight or weekend day-parts). Ask your broadcast reps for an Arbitron or Nielsen report, that reflects the RETAIL SPENDING POWER of their station. You’d be surprised how many actually intend to spend money on a new or used car this year. This information IS available, no matter what they tell you. You’ll be shocked to see what your true reach is, and how it actually affects your ROI.
With regards to newspaper and other print products, yes, they are places where people DO go to look for cars, but not a lot of people. Yet I’ve seen what some of you spend on the newspaper! I’m SHOCKED! Consumers want as much information on the car (photos, COMPLETE descriptions) and the seller as they can possibly get before making a decision, and the Internet gives you more of that than any other place, with little to no effort on the part of the consumer. Just point and click, from the comfort of your own home. The newspaper does not. TV does not. Radio does not. The product value/effectiveness doesn’t justify the spend.

It’s time to get with the program.

Ok. So I've decided to put my two cents in here. I've been lurking around here too, and have been reading a lot of the same stuff on a bunch of different message boards. The conversations aren't that different from what I am hearing from former co-workers.
I used to work for Trader myself. I started as an inside sales rep for TraderOnline for the old Trader Publishing. I went to work for Auto Trader Magazines as an outside sales rep, went to work then for the Alpha Dog of them all, AutoTrader.com as an outside sales rep, and then jumped divisions into a regional sales training position for AutoExtra.com.
I, like many others out there, have had my share of angry moments at our (former) company. But if I step back for a minute, and try to be objective, I have to say, it wasn’t all bad. During my time with the Cox organization(s), I was able to very quickly move from inside sales to outside sales to working for the flagship to being a regional sales specialist. All in about 4-5 years. What other company offers you the opportunity for growth like that? So for that, I am and will always be grateful.

HOWEVER. I too fell victim to layoffs this time last year from my regional position. So I know the pain of what those who were recently let go, are going through. I have to step back for a minute and say something about the demise of our company, Cox Auto Trader/Auto Mart. As a team, we are responsible for where it ended up. And don’t get angry guys, this is just my opinion, and my experience.
I hear a lot of reps complain, about the fact that upper management didn’t care about what was going on, and what changes were being made. Well for someone who actually made it into a management position, and got to actually talk one-on-one with district managers and regional managers, I can say they were doing what they had to do, and were doing the best they could.
AutoExtra.com had the potential to be a great site. They even brought over Joe George, one of the originators on the AutoTrader.com team, to oversee it. I remember having a conversation with him at a team meeting, about how we were in a truly good place at the right time—at a very similar place he once saw AutoTrader.com at. We had a fighting chance, it was just going to take time.
The reps however, (and this goes for AutoMart as well, as I heard about problems with rate integrity, dealer maintenance, and lack of sales enthusiasm from my AutoMart.com counterparts), failed to effectively position, sell, and service their internet products. They treated it simply as an add-on, or would HIDE it, and its cost, in the weekly invoice. I myself tried to share all of the practices I had learned with AutoTrader.com, with my reps, and very few took it to heart. They couldn’t see past the print, instead of looking at the total-market solution of print and internet, that would bring their dealers good leads. They tried to blame the site, the team in Norfolk—everyone but themselves for why it failed. Search engine marketing was our only main form of advertising? Well if the inventory isn’t there it’s not going to show up in searches! If the dealers aren’t there, the site won’t work! CAT and CAM gave reps a way to offset the costs of the print, and if they had done a better job, ACROSS THE COUNTRY, the division wouldn’t have fallen. Internet revenues with smaller overheads could have balanced out the print revenues with the higher overheads. Now yes, some reps had every dealer on an internet package, but if in one office, one city, your entire team isn’t on board, it just won’t work. And if nationally, you don’t build it, it won’t work.
I understand everyone feels hurt, angry, betrayed, lost. I was there too. And some days, I still find myself wandering back asking “what if?” But what’s done, is done. It’s time to take that anger, frustration, and sadness, and refocus all that energy. It’s time to move on. Believe me, I’ve been there.
THAT’S NOT TO SAY, AutoTrader.com didn’t have its shortcoming’s either.
I came on board in June 2006 as an Advertising Consultant, and while I was excited, and happy to be there, the honeymoon would soon come to an end. I took over a territory that had been DEMOLISHED with regards to ATC’s reputation.
Previous to me coming on board, 2 reps in that area and a sales manager, were all let go due to VERY shady practices. They had been giving dealers “free” product, such as upgrades to featured plus, or spotlight power packs, and then charging them later. “Don’t worry, they’ll thank me!” When the dealers refused to pay because they didn’t ask for the product, they were put into collections, or paid the balance to not ruin their own credit, and then cancelled ATC. Then of course, there was also the practice of selling, putting them live, and then never going back in the dealership again. Dealers LOVE that.
Now you all out there know dealers talk to each other. You can imagine how big of a fight it was then, for me to come on board, and try to work against such horrible experiences. And ATC management, WAS aware. However, they didn’t grant me any leniency. Yep, I made sales, but when times got rough because of the many uphill battles I was fighting, they were VERY quick to put you on a performance plan. Managers, as great as they were (and I REALLY DID respect my first DM at AutoTrader.com), couldn’t see past their own ambition to move up the ranks. I had a new manager come on and try to have a “come to Jesus” meeting with me, yet he had NEVER been out in the field with me, and didn’t even know my abilities as a sales rep. So, I knew it was time to move on, and was given the opportunity to move up. (This is part of why you, as dealers, saw such high rep turnover in your dealerships from ATC…their AMBITION, that sometimes border-lined on GREED…actually hurt them).
I’ve met Chip Perry. He is a great guy, and a very powerful, motivational speaker. So I believe when he says they are shifting focus this year to becoming more service oriented. And I believe it will be what’s good for ATC. And I believe in the power of AutoTrader.com.
Sorry I’ve rambled, my Red Bull hasn’t kicked in yet…
David, great post, and as someone who used to work with Mile One dealerships, you definitely have my respect and appreciation for what you do.

David,

Please keep doing guest posts they are interesting and I want you to know that I am a big fan. Keep up the good work.

Everyone,

As competitive as we maybe sometimes be with another we need to remember that we are in this together as one big team. We are the people that move this industry and control it with our experiences, references, and comments. I came to this conclusion yesterday when I sat in a room with vendors and dealers at NADA and watched two former president's speak. I saw how united we were and how we were like a family.

David,

A few do not speak for all and through sporadic disorder good eventually comes from it. Hope and look forward to hearing more valued information, updates and suggestions.

Regards,
Pete

Geeze boys... I had to take a moment to place a comment on here. Since I have been hiding behind the scenes for a bit.

As we all know AT is a heated discussion as prior posts on Dealerrefresh. Price increases and much more. Yes I was also in the midst of hammering a few AT reps on the head that were fully defending the AT blitz team etc.

David - future post would be greatly appreciated here on Dealerrefresh. Many of us regardless if we are a Dealer, Vendor, competition etc. are ears are open to learning more or should I say SHARPEN our SKILLS!!

Giving them the chance to see of their improvements are what AT says they are, only time will tell.

What it comes down to is we find ourselves blaming others for just that reason. Swallowing a hard pill due to price increases really is a drag and looking back at the ROI on the sale we made from AT is what we need to do.

Do you use AT to the fullest advantage you have?

Yes I sell websites, I am not going to sell a website if you are not going to use the tools I sell you. SPECIALS, UPCOMING SALES, UPLOADING VIDEOS and so on.

To get a tool to work for you, you need to work with all the tools that are provided to you.

I have used AT in the past, and sold a lot from AT. I had to keep on top of it daily to ensure the consumer is going to see what I have and details on that vehicle.

Again lets give them a chance to see what they have in store as David taken his time to place this post on here and seems confident this change is in the best interest of the dealer themselves.

Cheers to the Kool-Aid!

Alan-Scott gives all of his customer's the EXACT SAME DEAL...LOL!!!! First dealer in the world...Thanks Scott! Are you a Saturn store????

Scott--not all forks are created equal. A Lexus will get you from point A to point B just like a Kia--but you get what you pay for. Why buy advertising on TV station C when you can get just as much for 1/2 the cost at station D? Because station C offers more people, coverage, etc. than station D.....hope your new plastic forks don't break in your customer's hands when they take the first stab.

David, you can't do that on this blog. Some people still need professional training:) Thanks for the comments.

Scott Falcone and Brian DiPerna,

Quick story: I will put my reputation, ethics,success, and experience up against just about anyone in the business at any time. Neither of you know me so I would request that you not pass judgment on my character. Your pandering statement was insulting. My comments were from the heart. Maybe you should be less jaded and smile every once in a while. Sounds like someone needs a hug.....and this is why I shouldn't do guest posts...

Common now with the pimping comment. Discourse is great but discourteous is not. If your saying that you are skeptical or still not agreeing that's great. Heck make some fun but mocking? I don't think that every topic is spot on for me personally and just pass on engaging it but look at the purpose of this site. Hope you where having a bad day and no worries. The best to all and it will get better hopefully soon. PS Anybody going to be at the Chicago Auto Show? Maybe stop by and say hello-Pete

Come on...since when does explaining the proper changes that a vendor is making become a VIP Pimp show? I have met David more than once and he is great at what he does. He follows all of the right trends and is a big component to the success of MileOne. Just because someone had been to a company dinner and had a great time does not mean that they sell their soul and true feelings about them. I think when you get to know a company and you know the right people and you see that this company is trying to make things right it is only fair acknowledge it. There are companies that I am not a huge fan of even though I respect them. The companies that I am not a fan of can wine and dine me all day and night long. However, if I think they have a crappy service my thought will be the same, I will just never stop respecting people for trying to make things better and improve. It show positive change and a will to improve. At the end of the day, dealers need vendors and vendors need dealers as both work together to be as profitable as possible.

Really convenient. Fly me to Vegas, give me the VIP Pimp show and I will say the vendor is the best thing since color television.

Give me AutoTraders number. Bellagio, strip clubs, Patron, and I am their biggest fan!