Ummm… hate to tell ya whatcha already know but ain't tellin': a scraping project has been underway for a few years now at ATC; the scraping comes from within.

Send me ur resume, maybe i can do something for ya.

-Sayre

So, I guess I am still drinking the kool aid. It’s a lot easier to afford the kool aid when you are selling a bunch of used cars and growing market share.

Back to the comments, the arguments over ATC and Cars are getting old and dated. Dealers, you need both of them no question. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. As for those that like to claim print is dead or dying, you really need to look at the whole picture. While newspapers are on the ropes targeted publications still do very well and under the current conditions can be very cost effective.

The Internet is no different than other advertising mediums in the basics which are target demo, reach, frequency and most important the message (call to action). Yes the Internet does give the benefit of more content for less money. But just as your used lot doesn’t contain all one make or one model, your advertising mix should not be all one or two choices. As much I as love the Automotive Internet Business (now working on building another auto site in the Phoenix market), we love to throw stats around more than politicians love polling numbers. Are effective? Do we offer great ROI? Can we target better than other mediums? Yes to all. One caveat……ROI is subjective.

Can the Internet deliver buyers to the Internet Dept. of course. But what about the “soft” results that are always talked about. Clicks to the website? I can’t tell you how many dealers I’ve dealt with in 3 states that tell me those are not legit. But when pressed they are spending a couple of thousand with Reach Local or some other SEM/SEO campaign and count the clicks. Why not with an automotive site? What about the walk in traffic? From the last ATC/Northwood Univ study, I believe it 54% of customers generated by online never email or call? As Sellmorecars just noted, these set up the “driveby” scenario on the sales floor to avoid the split. Been there, done that, not proud of it.

I’ve had more dealers tell me they always look at the results from any site I was with, take the hard leads and add 25% for the soft leads they couldn’t track. They got it when it came to understanding what the internet and auto sites were about. Not lead providers, just plain advertising with better accountability to a degree.

Fight all you want. ATC is the big dog on the street. While I don’t drink the “Kool-Aid”, I hope the changes they are putting in place will be successful. They don’t want to admit it but there is competition out there, even from the small regional and local sites like me. What dealers need to realize and it shows in the comments, they are in the newspaper syndrome with ATC and Cars to a certain level. I need to be there because my competition is there and they spend $200 million to advertise. Just as Trader Magazine was once the source for cars and has faded, the auto listing sites will do the same but will not go away. They will just be another source.

While the big guys fight it out for the listings win, us little guys will take the next step and use listings, .mobi, texting, Behavorial, video and traditional media to deliver the right message, at the right time to the shopper and buyer all from one source. To the former CAT people that will sound familiar.

There’s room for all of us in the market. The current conditions will not last forever and the ones left standing will have a wide open field to compete on. Someone said 5 years behind is an enternity in the Internet. When you look at it, the auto listings and CPL models are already dated. One can only do so much to spruce up an old technology. ATC lost a great resource when it let CAT (which ATC was part of) fall. They lost the ability to go cross channel and reach every potential buyer. Someone earlier said that 78% (another one of those polling #’s) of people looking for cars use the Internet, what about the other 22% are they not worthy of seeing what is available? Are they not worth our time and attention? Are the 78% that go online really in the market at that time?

I’m all for the Internet and what it can do for the dealership. With that said I can also make the argument it should be low priced. Another subjective term. I firmly believe we on the Internet vendor side of the table tend to invent and introduce more products that offer little in value as far as functionality and ROI but sell the sizzle to get the revenue. Capitalism at it’s best and I’ve been guilty of it. But for the dealers out there, ask yourself, I spend all this money on location, location, location for the drive by traffic and eyeballs. Does it really give me the ROI? If you say yes, then why do you need to advertise? Paying more for Internet listings is the same thing, most of the traffic any of our sites generate are “drive by”. If I looked at the mix, could I reallocate some of those funds for other products that would enhance what I already have?

Good luck to ATC. Thanks for letting me ramble.

I mean really guys, STOP THE BICKERING. I’ve worked for both Cox Enterprises and Classified Ventures. Both are great sites, both will work for the dealers, and you should spend more time fighting the wasted ad spend on TV and in the newspaper (and even on the radio of all places). Do you know in a C-Market like Charleston SC, one page, for one day in the newspaper, is like $1900–MORE if you ad color. A radio schedule in an A/B market like Norfolk VA, to reach a decent frequency, is AT LEAST $2500-$3000 a week or more. And TV? Forget it! The Internet is THE place to shop as a consumer to really know what you can get for your money. And you BOTH have the BEST sites for them. No one else even comes close. I bet if you actually worked TOGETHER against traditional media… You could get even more than just $2000 each per month. Stop talking traffic and start talking EXPOSURE and RESULTS.

By each side putting up a wall, and taking a competitive stance against the other site, you’re actually demeaning your own product and your own reputation, in front of the dealer. Jeffrey Gitomer, one of the leading sales guru’s of our time, practically uses the statement “people buy from people they trust” as his mantra. If you actually SUGGEST both sides work together in the best interest of the dealer…WOW…THAT will build trust. And then he’ll actually COME TO YOU for ad decisions, and will be even willing to buy more if you can show him something is going to work.

Just my 2 cents…

SCRAPER: (skrey-per) Noun

A program designed to take site content without permission. It catalogs and indexes the World Wide Web without following an industry standard protocol. Seeks to disguise itself and ignore the ROBOT.TXT file for instructions. At ATC, scrapers are eliminated from site metrics when we are able to identify them. Just like Cars.com .

If you would like me to explain what spiders are and how they work…let me know.

Bottom line…ATC had 16 million unique visitors and Cars.com had 10 million. Great numbers for both sites and I hope you are on both. You keep masquerading as a dealer…if you were a dealer and you are this bitter…cancel ATC!

So traffic numbers from partner websites are never counted in total site traffic? Compete and Alexa are reporting organic searches. They do not combine traffic from organic searches and searches from partner sites to get the number of total searches.

You are so confused. Here is your educational research. Read this and if you still don’t get it…. incredible.