Edmunds.com, they’re stealing from me!

We spend a lot of money with Edmunds.  We buy leads off their site (through a third-party) and participate in their PDP program for premium placement.  We have been a very good customer of theirs for YEARS!  And they’ve been good to us….until now.

Before I get into what is going on, I want to say that I have sent emails and made phone calls to my rep who aids us in all things Edmunds.  He has pushed things up the chain, along with my request for “at least a phone call” before 5:00 PM EST today to work things out.  Well, the phone call didn’t come.  So, I feel that I have given Edmunds time to respond.  They could have simply said “5:00 PM isn’t enough time” and I would have been fine with that.  So here we go:

KBB wants to change how auto leads are bought and sold

Guest Posting by Cliff Banks

Kelley Blue Book is launching a bold initiative, hoping to revolutionize the way online leads are bought and sold.

In the process, it’s turning its back on a rather successful revenue generator while speeding into a business dominated by AutoTrader.com and Cars.com.

In July, Kelley announced it was launching an online classified listings service for new and used vehicles and will charge dealers on a per lead basis. It’s calling the venture KBB’s Trusted Marketplace.

For years, AutoTrader.com and Cars.com have employed a subscription-type model, in which dealers pay a flat rate each month to list their inventory on the two automotive sites. The price is determined by the level of service a dealer chooses.

At times, dealers have grumbled about the seemingly high prices AutoTrader charges, and say the cost does not always match the level of performance.

Be careful! Dealix is/was purchasing leads from a lead provider “New Car America” and it could be a scam.

My good friend and dealer owner brought this to my attention after speaking to a CUSTOMER (over the phone) that filled out the lead form. The phone conversation with the gentlemen that apparently filled out the lead form, supposedly confirmed that he was being paid to fill out leads request forms at $5.00 per form. The gentlemen went as far to say that he got the job by answering to a “work from home” ad.

• I did a little research and found their actual website.

http://www.newcaramerica.com/

Taken from their “About Us” page.

“NewCarAmerica.com is committed to providing consumers direct access to automobile dealers across the United States. Our automobile directory helps our users quickly find dealers in their area. Thru the use of the latest technology, such as our new car quote service and daily Blog on topics effecting today’s car and truck buyers, we provide the fastest information available to help you buy your next car or truck.”

• I did some more research and found their registration information.

Registration Service Provided By: BuffaloWeb Services, LLC

Visit: http://www.buffalowebhosting.com
Domain name: newcaramerica.com

Registrant Contact:
NewcarAmerica, Inc.
(I did remove the personal contact information)

• Here is a copy of the lead from Dealix.

————————————–
DEALIX CORPORATION SALES LEAD
————————————–
Michael Hopkins has asked to be contacted specifically by your dealership regarding the 2008 Nissan Titan 4WD below. Please contact them as soon as possible.
————————————–
Lead No.:    1217054999
Received On: 8/3/2008 12:02:00 PM (PST)
————————————–
CUSTOMER INFORMATION:

Name:        Michael Hopkins
Address:     Valley View Ave
City:        Lewistown
State:       PA
Zip:         17044
Distance:    Customer is approx. 19.6961722717323 mi. from you
E-mail:      mshopp69@yahoo.com
Phone:
Best Time:   Morning
Purchase Time Frame:  Within 2 weeks
————————————–
REQUESTED VEHICLE:

Year:         2008
Make:         Nissan
Model:        Titan 4WD
Trim:         XE Crew Cab Short Bed
Engine:       Not Specified
Transmission: Not Specified
Ext. Color:   No Preference
Int. Color:   No Preference
————————————–
ADDITIONAL INFO AND CUSTOMER NOTES:

No Trade-In Specified.
Payment Method: Cash
SPECIAL NOTES ON THIS LEAD:
Customer is approx. 19.7 mi. from you.
————————————–
CONTACT DEALIX:

Your Dealix Service Representative is:
Steve C. Diacont, 412-727-7857 (removed email)

It’s our goal to send you the very best sales leads in the business.
————————————–

After bringing this to Dealix’s attention, they did say they researched the lead and too called the customer to confirm that the gentlemen was indeed being paid to fill out the lead forms.

Props to Dealix for doing the research (I guess?) and for crediting the dealer for all the leads that had came from New Car America. It still concerns me that Dealix would even buy leads from a lead generator like this, just look at the website.

• Here is a copy of the email from the support rep at Dealix (take notice to his signature..he.).

Hi Jeff,

These are the 4 leads that you received from New Car America, i have compd them.  I will stay on top of this and let you know when we have a resolution.

(see attached)

Thank You
Steve Diacont
Delaix
412-980-8377

This is total crap! I encourage EVERYONE that is purchasing leads from Dealix or ANY 3rd Party Lead provider to be sure you’re NOT careful buying leads from New Car America.

Have you experienced the AutoTrader.com BLITZ?

Every once in a while you meet a salesperson who was obviously flexing his/her muscles to a coworker before trying to sell you something.  If things go awry, they have a tendency to say things that don’t usually make the sale, but probably push someone further away.

Well, I’m not going to get into what happened to my boss and me last Thursday, but would rather hear your Autotrader blitz stories.

Don’t know what the Autotrader.com blitz is?

Autotrader.com brings sales reps from different  areas into various markets to see if a change of face can get a dealer to sign-up for more stuff….or just sign-up.  I have heard it is called the Autotrader Blitz, but I’ve never actually heard an ATC rep say that.

Soooooo – have you been approached by an AutoTrader.com sales rep who usually doesn’t work your market area? If you have, how did it go?

P.S.  I promise to share my story later.

What do you want from your 3rd Party Lead Vendors?

A.  ROI
B.  Conversion
C.  Marketing
D.  All of the above

Here is another Blueprint Series to discuss those exact things.  Tell your third party lead provider exactly what you want! Tell your third party lead provider what they’re doing wrong.  Yes, this includes anyone who sends you a lead, except your own website or direct ventures.

This one is for, but not limited to:  AAA, AOL, Adtel, AutoExtra, AutoMart, AutoUSA, AutoTrader.com, Jumpstart, CarFax, Cars.com, CarsDirect, Dealix, Edmunds, KBB, NewLeadsPlus, OEM’s, Vehix, Yahoo, USAA, ZAG, etc.

AutoUSA had 400 automotive dealerships surveyed AND 90% of respondents ranked "accuracy of the information" as the most important feature!?!? No Shit! The "amount of contact information" and the lead "closing ratio" were also very important. No Shit! x 2

I’m not sure we needed a study to figure this out.

Phil DuPree, president of AutoUSA said:

"Providing dealers with a volume of leads that can’t be worked because of inaccurate or incomplete information will drive down closing rates. Lead quality continues to be the overriding factor in achieving high close rates and dealer satisfaction with third party lead providers."

AND

"Dealers are looking for the right mix of lead providers that deliver the best coverage for their dealership and a high volume of quality leads," said DuPree. "They’re not afraid to switch providers if they aren’t seeing results."

Those are some impressive key factors to point, AND….I hope they didn’t pay too much to have that survey performed.

I’m not going to knock AutoUSA too hard (even though I still never got a solid answer for my duplicate lead issue). In my previous positions at past dealers, I did get my better leads from AutoUSA. Though, if you wanted to break it down even deeper, it was actually the leads from Edmunds.com that had the highest closing ratio (BUT..too often had the worse front end gross). Guess you can’t have both?

If you want, you can make the jump over to the
full press release..AutoUSA Study Finds Accuracy of Information Keeps Dealers Satisfied with Third Party Lead Providers

Most of you (the one’s that sell cars for a living) may have to make a concentrated effort to look past the way you like to sell cars in order to answer honestly. With any luck, everyone that comments will do so from the perspective of a consumer.

Is there anything in the traditional or expected car shopping/buying experience that consumers really like? I’ve had dealers, General Mangers and salesmen tell me over and over for years that “buying a car is an emotional experience.” Those words are always spoken with an “I’m so smart and I really understand people” kind of tone. Do I disagree? Yes and no. Buying a car obviously involves some emotion, but the truth is that it’s primarily negative emotion. Car dealers and the typical way they run their businesses create tension, worry, frustration, anger, fear and depression often before the customer has even considered them.

Not that any of you read the newspaper, watch the boob-tube, listen to the radio or use the internet, but if you did then you’d know that car dealerships advertise in these places. Have you ever seen a TV commercial advertising a vehicle at what seems to be an impossible price? Have you ever seen a newspaper ad doing the same? Can you say loss-leaders? Can you say trickery, manipulation, coercion? So, what’s my point? When dealers market and advertise themselves in these ways they’re already stirring emotion in consumers. Guess what kind of emotion? Maybe this video will help paint the picture.

So…what do consumers want in a car buying experience? I have my opinions, but I want yours. You took the time to read this, so think like a consumer (if you can) and let the community know your thoughts.

With encouragement and hope.

Shaun is the CEO and Consultant for Dealer Advisor

There has been a lot of talk about the changes in AutoTrader’s pricing, so why don’t we get this beast out in the open for better or worse?

What do you think of AutoTrader.com’s price hikes?

Posted by Alex Snyder on behalf of a few dealers.

Premium Partner with AutoTrader – Again!

Well I did it again. I signed up for another year as a Premium Partner with AutoTrader for their 2007 product.

I was tempted to drop down to the Featured Listings package or get rid of AutoTrader all together and shift my budget over to Cars.com. Not because AutoTrader doesn’t perform well for us, but due to the increase in pricing. We are a smaller dealer and I’m lucky to have 50 used cars on the lot at any given time. Once you take the monthly price and spread it out amongst all my used cars, I was already spending more then I like per car for advertising.

What keeps me going with AutoTrader is the positive ROI I’ve been able to track using the service. Even with the high cost per lead and advertising cost per car, the ROI makes total sense to continue on for another year. Though if they keep hiking their price, this may be my last signed contract.

My biggest complaint I have with AutoTrader is with the price increase each year, they try to sell me on the new “added features” that do nothing to sell me more cars. Like adding the ability to add more photos of your dealer for your dealership profile or the new “Reduced” icon that shows up when you change your pricing (being a Mercedes dealers I think it sort of cheapens the car).

The new Print Vehicle Brochure is a decent addition but the load time for the brochures can be horrendous for slower computers. They should allow the consumer the option for a full or mini brochure (cutting some of the photos and having the option omitting the Carfax).

The best part of the new 2007 product is the new Admin! (if it would only work, but I’ll touch on that later). Now when you log in, you get an inventory age report along with a list of your Top 10 New and Used vehicles. But there’s a problem with the Top 10 reports and something I have been complaining about for along time. The Top 10 reports shows how many times a particular vehicle has shown up in searches BUT it’s for the entire time the car has been in inventory. Obviously if I have a car in inventory for 3-4 months, it’s going to be higher on the list then say a car that’s been listed for only a week. AutoTrader needs to allow us to designate a time period for this report to have any real value.

The most impressive feature is the Market Comparison. While viewing your inventory list screen you get an overview of the average price of similar inventory listed on AutoTrader. This allows you to see how your vehicles compare to the competition. Of course these are just averages, but when you drill down to the vehicle specifics and click on the Market Comparison tab, you get a full list of your competitive inventory while allowing you to click and view the actual vehicle listing. This is something I do before spotlighting a car but I would have to search from the consumer side of AutoTrader. I can now stay inside of the AutoTrader admin, compare my inventory and pricing to the competition and then Spotlight, all from one screen.

Another gripe I have with AutoTrader is the deleting of inventory. If you make any change to a vehicle in the AutoTrader admin, it “locks” that vehicle into your inventory. You are then forced to manually delete the vehicle when it sells. I can see how this would be a huge pain for a larger dealer with more inventory. I don’t understand why they can’t build a rule that says if you make a change to vehicle and it “locks” into your inventory, it will delete if the vehicle is not in the feed from your DMS or inventory tool like Homenet or ebizautos after 2 or 3 updates.

Overall it looks as if AutoTrader actually put some thought into this new admin. BUT as I mentioned earlier; “if it would only work”. Unfortunately after only a few minutes playing around, I ran into several issues. I changed the price of several cars form the vehicle listing screen only to find when I did, it was deleting all the photos for that vehicle. I can’t seem to get our videos attached to the inventory to show up in the multimedia portion of the vehicle listing. When I choose what vehicles I want to show in the Dynamic Display, it doesn’t update and reverts back the original setting.

Hopefully by the time you read this, these issues will be taken care of. I know I’m always giving AutoTrader a rough time here on DealerRefresh but when you’re the Big Guy and you want to charge a premium price, I expect a premium product with premium service.

So another year on AutoTrader for me..we’ll see how this year totals up!!

Few week back I wrote an article “AutoUSA – Something isn’t kosher!”. I pointed out that somehow AutoUSA had resold me my own test lead 2 times over and I had screen shot to prove
it.

If you read the comments, you will see where Phil Dupree – VP of eCommerce for AutoUSA joined in on the conversation and actually took an initiative to research how this could have possibly
happened.

Phil Dupree said – “All three of these leads were individually entered on the Yahoo! Autos website. Yahoo! Autos has confirmed that they never resend leads—each is uniquely entered by users. Since Yahoo! sends leads from their website only, they confirmed that these leads were typed in on their “get a free price quote” lead form which has dealers listed for selection. Whoever typed in these leads had to specifically select your dealership in order for us to send you the lead. Since the leads are several months apart, we did not filter them out as
duplicates."

To this day I still do not have a clear explanation to why I was resold my own test lead 2 times over. I was never pointing my finger at AutoUSA but yet new something wasn’t kosher.

But..then my boy Chad Long over at AutoOneMedia sent me this link. “Yahoo! Gets Caught With Their Hand in the Cloaking Jar”. As I read this article, I started to wonder if maybe, just maybe it was Yahoo’s ignorant oversights that caused this mishap. If pages within Yahoo autos are/were “accidentally” being cloaked, is it possible Yahoo or a department within Yahoo could be accidentally reselling leads to AutoUSA? I can’t imagine reselling a few leads here and there would ultimately benefit a company as large Yahoo. And if they were doing this on a grand scale, I would think they would have already been caught (but then maybe they have).

I’m still very curious to how this happened and where exactly the blame falls, but we guess I will never know.